ball5podcast/Brandon Barnes(former MLB player, Mental Performance Specialist & remote hitting instructor)

Tune in as Scott visits with Former Major Leaguer, remote hitting instructor and mental performance specialist Brandon Barnes, for one of the most important conversations we've had on Ball5 Podcasts as well as a look into Brandon's work with Aggie 1B/3B Gavin Grahovac.

We dive into why success shouldn't be measured by how many hits you get in a game—and why discipline, preparation, consistency and controlling what you can control can lead to long-term success.

Whether you're a player, parent, coach or simply someone striving to perform at a higher level, this conversation is full of practical advice that extends well beyond baseball.

Topics include:

• Handling success and failure
 • Building a consistent daily process
 • Mental performance strategies
 • Why preparation creates confidence
 • Controlling what you can control
 • Developing discipline over emotion
 • Creating sustainable success

If you enjoy conversations that mix baseball, mindset and performance, be sure to subscribe to Ball5 Clubhouse for more interviews, film room breakdowns, hitting instruction and stories from my journey through professional baseball.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Everybody thinks we joined the ball on the podcast. I'll be hosting on Livingston. And as I mentioned in my Major League Baseball Draft Combine episode, here's my interview with Brandon Barnes, a former Major League Baseball player, current remote hitting instructor, as well as a mental performance coach. And one reason I wanted to reach out to him, especially was because of his work with Gavin Grohovac. So he can give us some insight to what uh Gavin's thinking inside the batter's box and his mental approach. So should be good. Hope you guys enjoy. I don't know if it's me, you, or let's go ahead and knock this out.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

So, so tell me a little bit about uh, you know, give me a little snapshot of the the career.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, so um man, grew up playing baseball since I was five, got to high school, got really good at um at football. I ended up having a scholarship to UCLA um my going into my senior year to play football and decided to quit baseball my senior year high school um to really pursue, get bigger, faster, stronger to play Division I football. Uh towards the end of my senior year, I did exactly what I wanted to do. I gained about 20 pounds um of muscle, got faster. Uh, but uh I lost my scholarship to UCLA. Um they had a coaching change, and you know, I think the new coach wanted to bring in all of his own recruits, which I I get, right? Uh so decided to, hey, I'm gonna play baseball in the summer with my friends. It was little league time, but we played like big leagues for 17 and 18-year-olds. And I like with my new strength and speed, I I was just a beast on the field. I ended up hitting like eight home runs in 10 games, hit like almost 500 in the tournament. So a bunch of my friends that I'd grown up with are like, man, you you gotta go back to play baseball. I was like, man, I don't know if like I've always wanted to play in the NFL since I was like a freshman in high school. And and I was on that track, and I just remember like in the back of my head, like, just sleep on it, pray on it, whatever comes of it. So I was like, all right, guys, because they would not leave me alone. And I I prayed on it that night. I was like, hey Lord, if if this is what you want me to do, if baseball is what my path and my journey is, make it clear. And I remember waking up the next morning and being like, I want to go play baseball for the rest of my life. And uh from that point, I made it my mission to play the game for as long as I could. So I decided out there, um, we were in South Carolina to sign up at a junior college. Didn't have a tryout. Um, I just had a buddy that was going there. They were one of the top junior colleges in Southern California. And I was, you know, just a massive leap of faith. And I called the football coach um and just at the junior college that I was gonna go to, uh, told him I wasn't coming back, and I was gonna switch to play baseball. Uh so he tried to get me to play both ways, uh baseball and football at the end of junior college. But when I do something, I want to go all in. Um, so I went to junior college, had a tryout, grew up an infielder, um, a lot like Gavin. I was a third baseman, shortstop, first baseman, and I remember taking ground balls and feeling really good about it. And he goes, Okay, um, there's only one problem. We've we've got a D1 bounce back at third, a draft prospect at short, and our first baseman 6'4, 235. It's Homer's. I'm like, so you're saying there's not a chance? He's like, pretty much. He goes, but you played safety in high school, right? I was like, Yeah, that would like loved it. Great. I want you to go center field. If any ball in the air, I want you to intercept it. I was like, done, that's easy. Like, that's that's what I do. And I just from that moment, I fell in love with the outfield because it was a challenge to me. Every ball that went up, I believed and I thought was mine. It was not gonna hit the ground. Um, so I played with that mentality in the outfield, which served me well. Didn't uh end up getting to play the first four games of the season. Um, I made the team, but I rode the pine. And I just remember we were we were dusting somebody one day, and he's like, Barnes, you're in. So I went in, I got two hits. I think there were two doubles, and I got to start the next game. I think I went two doubles in a homer the next game and never came out of the lineup. I got drafted at that point. I was a freshman All-American in junior college, drafted in the the sixth round by the Astros, and then that's where my career truly began for me, is learning to be a baseball player and not just an athlete. Um it was a grind. Seven and a half years in the minor leagues, I repeated every level. Um, and it wasn't until I understood now the hitting, like I could hit, but I wasn't like a gabin, right? Like I wasn't born to hit. Um, I wasn't like some of these guys. It was a struggle for me, but I was the best athlete on the field, and I knew that. Um, but when I stepped in the box, I was kind of robotic. Uh but the biggest thing that slowed me down in my career was was my mental game, um, was not understanding how to play the game mentally, how to because I was a football player, right? In football, you can be so physical, nothing has to be mental, um, other than yeah, go take your anger out if you messed up, right? Um, so learning. I remember coming home in an offseason. My cousin had pitched one game in the big leagues, played in the minor leagues a bunch of years, and he said, Hey, you need to understand that you need to learn the mental side of the game, or you're never gonna make it. And I think I was about six years in at that point, struggling. And I just remember like I always told him, like, no, I'll just out-athlete people till the day like I'm done playing this game. He goes, He goes, No, you're not. He goes, You're gonna get to a point where you cannot out-athlete people in this game. That happened once I got to AAA for the first time and realized how good guys were and how smart pitchers were. So that offseason, man, I walk I read every Ken Revisa book, um, studied sports psychology, watched every video I could on the mental side of the game, and started to put it into play the next season. Uh, I was supposed to go to AAA, ended up getting sent to A to start the year. I was I was pissed, but I remember the the specific moment that my my mindset changed was my head coach after that in spring training came up to me and goes, Hey, I know you're not happy about being in double A, but I'm gonna give you 24 hours to be as pissed as you want. And I looked at him in the eyes, I said, I don't need 24 hours. I'm gonna be out of here in a couple months. And he looks at me and goes, good answer. I go out, I was Texas League Player of the Week the first week, second week, and I think the third week I was co-Texas League player of the week. I ended up getting Texas League player of the month, and then I think another like couple awards in the second month, and I got called up to triple A going into month three. I think I was hitting about 325 in double A. Um, get called up to AAA. I I'm hitting now I'm hitting about 340 in triple A as the leadoff hitter with some thump. And for me, I I knew I was, and this happened to me the year before, I was I was a call away. I knew I was a call away, but this time I didn't care about it. I I didn't solely focus on, hey, they may call me up. They may because then I'm not worried about my game. I'm more worried about getting called up in something that's out of my control. And I just played free. And when I did that, the call-up happened. Um, we were in Salt Lake City, just got walked off by Cole Calhoun on a home run. And I came into the office, and my manager he knew how to mess with me. Um, I was a fiery player, so he uh he asked me what was wrong with my attitude, and and I was I had pride in the way I showed up to the ballpark every day, um, the way my attitude was. And I we kind of started getting back at like I'm good, like I'm struggling a little bit, I'm trying to stay even killed. And we were just we started like arguing. And he asked me one thing he would have said is well, where's that piss and vinegar running through your blood? And I started yelling back at him. I'm here, I'm he goes, Good. Now take that to the now take that to the big leaks. And I just remember crying. I just like pulled my shirt out of my head and started crying because I was so it had been a buildup of seven and a half years of grinding and working for it. Um that it was just all in that moment, it just hit me like a ton of bricks. Um, I remember calling my wife right after, and and she didn't even believe it. She's like, no way, we're not going to the big league, no way. We were content on being career minor league players. So that's that's kind of how the career started in the big leagues, and then you know, I got to the big leagues, and I was I was a platoon player. I knew who I was. Um, I knew I wasn't gonna be a superstar. I knew for me being a good teammate, going balls to the wall every day, um, and doing the things for the team right every single day, right? Giving up my at bats for other guys to get guys over, whatever that looks like to bun it. Um if you know someone was picking on one of my players. I was a guy that would go out there and, you know, they called me the goon, right? The hockey player who sits on the bench is the goon. He goes and takes care of business. That that was kind of like what I felt my job was. I played with superstars in Colorado, like megastars. And those guys had to be protected. So for me, I was mentally, I was the guy that was gonna protect them at all costs, but I was also gonna hold them accountable. And they knew that. They knew if I said something like I meant it, which was really cool for me to be able to talk to two Lewitzki, I mean, guys like Justin Morneau, who were insane, like to me, Hall of Fine, Hall of Fame type players, um, not just by their career numbers, but who they were as a teammate and stuff like that. Um, Carlos Gonzalez, Nolan Arenado. I mean, the list on that team is unreal. So that kind of changed my perspective on what was next in my life and in my careers, how I wanted to help guys, because I was a sponge. I just studied the best and was around them and just wanted to like learn from them.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Well, I think, you know, so at some point the goon had to learn to hit, right? Because you were an athlete, you were an athlete, and but you still had to learn how to hit somewhere to make that transition. So, what kind of changes did you make, you know, in that swing? Yes, mentality, we'll get into that. But I'm just thinking, you know, what kind of changes did you? Was there somebody that said, hey, do this with your swing or do this or that? And because I think at the end of the day, I also I know you teach, you know, kids now and this and that, and I did that one, you know, long, you know, after I got out. And I almost feel like the more I talked about it, the more I taught it, actually, the better I got, even though I was already retired, right? But learning from people and really learning and digging in how to really hit. So, how did that kind of go along with the athlete inside of you?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Absolutely. So I have two people who changed my career hitting-wise. One early in my career that kind of got me to the big leagues, and then one later where I really figured out, but it was too late. Uh, was the first one was uh that seventh year going into spring training where I was supposed to go to AAA. Um, I met the hitting coach in AAA in spring training. His name was Leon Roberts, played uh for the Kansas City Royals for a long time, played with George Brett, like big Indian man. Love this guy to death. Like his heart for hitting was unreal and the knowledge he had. So he would meet me. And my my struggle, I could hit any fastball. You throw it 100, you throw it 70, I could hit it. Um, it was when you threw a wrinkle in it and you threw a slider that really affected my game. I just couldn't pick it up. Yeah, I just couldn't pick it up early enough, so I'm swinging at it. And I remember in spring training, he goes, All right, you want to make it to the big leagues? I said, Yeah. He goes, All right, we got to hone in the slider. So I remember the first day of spring, he's like, Hey, I want you to meet me in there at 6:30, and we're gonna get after it. I said, All right. So me thinking that I got my batting gloves, my bat, like we're gonna we're gonna take some hacks today. He goes, All right, great. Um, you're gonna drop your bat and I'm gonna turn the slider machine on, and you're gonna sit there in your launch position and just track them for about 30 minutes. I tracked balls, and he's like, I just want you to try to pick up the spin as soon as you can. Use your eyes. Don't think about anything else, just use your eyes to pick up the spin. So we did that for two days. I didn't even take a swing. Uh, third day came, he goes, All right, now I want you to hold your bat. I was like, sick, we're gonna swing. He goes, You're just gonna stand there. I want you to have the feeling of your load and then picking it up. We did that for like three days, and then he's like, All right, now you get a step and see if it's gonna be a ball or strike, and I'm gonna move it around a little bit. And so he would move it. I got to call ball or strike, um, but I still wasn't allowed to swing, right? It was more of him rewiring the way my brain sees the ball before I can make a decision to swing. And we did that for two weeks, and finally I started getting really good at picking it up. He goes, All right, now you can only swing at the hanger. I was like, okay. So now I had to put you know, brain and body together and swing at the ones I wanted to when I saw it. Um so we did that for about two weeks, and it changed the way I attacked at bats um because I was more confident in it. When I got to two strikes, I knew they were throwing a slider, and I like just trying to throw my bat at it. Now I was I could hit it with authority. Um, and he just kind of taught me different things about I was a big pull hitter when I was younger. He taught me how to open up the right side of the field with two strikes, shoot balls early in the count, but also how to jump guys, you know, oh-0 as a leadoff hitter. Um, so so that that transition of just like, and we kept that same thing going. We had the same routine all season long. I mean, when I tell guys that I work with, I'm like, it's about the boring work, it's the same thing over and over and over again. It's literally what I did every day that season was the same thing, the same routine every day. And it it works. Um, you don't need fancy drills, you don't need analytics, you don't need these fancy machines. You need a work ethic and a desire to get after it every day and be the best that you can be. Um, now all those things are great helpers, right? They can facilitate our game, but you don't need them. It's not a need in this game. Guys have been hitting without a machine in analytics for hundreds of years, right? Um, yeah, but that was that. And then the second part is I was just I was done with the big leagues. I was 32 years old, 33. Um, and I just remember like I want to get the most out of my career. I want to just see where I could take it. And I called Justin Turner one day, and I was like, JT, what are you know your career has been amazing this last couple of years? Like, what have you done? Who have you seen? He goes, Hey, I want you to call my guy Doug in LA. Go down and see him. So I called Doug, I drove down there to his shop, and he just blew my mind with everything that I thought hitting was, kind of was wrong in the way that I was thinking about it. You know, more and I was more traditional back then. Down through the ball, squash the bug, um, kind of that that left to right swing or right to left swing, um, more east to west than it should be north to south. Um, I stood taller because my whole career they wanted me to kind of hit like Jeff Bagwell when I was about 20 pounds lighter than Jeff Bagwell. They just wanted me wide into my legs, less movement. Um, and Doug kind of taught me bigger movements helped me because that's what makes me athletic, is me being able to move my body.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

So you combine a both leg combine the strength with the move.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Absolutely. And I learned how to flow my body. I studied a lot of Japanese baseball um where they got into flow, flow mode of their swing. Um, and then it just clicked one day. And I remember hitting a down and inside slider for an Oppo home run, and then the next game hitting one to center, and I wasn't a guy that drove the ball out to center and right. And from that point, I ended up that year hitting 30 home runs, 30 doubles, and driving to 95 RBIs at 32, 33 years old. Right. And that's when I was like, okay, it's it's not one size fits all, it's not, you know, this type of swing, swinging down or swinging up, or you know, HLP, you know, whatever's out there, the swing models of all these people that think, like, hey, this is the way you do it. No, everybody's built different, everybody's body moves differently. What best facilitates their body and that we can get to move efficiently and consistently to do damage, right? It could be simple, it could be a toe tap, it could be a very minimal stride, it could be a big leg kick. It just depends on what the athlete needs.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah, and I think I think too though, that's uh that's what makes people a better coach, too. And like the training is being able to to realize, you know, just because you did it one way doesn't mean it's gonna work for somebody else the other way, just because that's the way you did it, right? And so when I mean my time, my era was different than yours. I mean, you were what like early 2000s to the teens, right? To 2020, somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yeah, I was yeah, I finished in the 20s. So it was 2005 to 2020.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, so I was in the 90s, right? And so it was just it was, you know, exit v low. Yeah. It didn't matter to me. You know, people like, you know, they go like, what's your exit v low? I go, oh, isn't that, right? So it's it's uh, you know, I got I kind of came out of the mold of uh Tony Gwynn because that's who I played with in San Diego. And you know, we were a lot of hands inside the ball and you know, stuff like that, and flip the bottle in and take that. But you know, they were throwing us sinkers and balls that were moving. So, you know, when people talk about adjustability, I see them talk about adjustability. Look how he gets in his legs on this changeup and it gets lower and he does this. Adjustability was the direction of your hands. Once the pitch broke, we'd have to take him a different direction. You know, we didn't have a lot of the lower body strength into the ball. Of course, I wasn't a big strong guy, but I think our errors are different. And but I do see a combination of both of them. You still have to be able to kind of you know work your hands with the power inside of it as well. We we just didn't really focus on the power, it was more like being surgical, if you will. Put it that way, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Absolutely. You guys, you know, I I look at it too as back then guys were more pure hitters, right? It wasn't sexy by any means, but it was, hey, I'm gonna hit. I mean, how many guys hit 300 back then? A lot.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's way different now.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, and everybody's gonna say, well, pitching was different. It's not that different. Um, if we really look at radar guns and how everything's tracked, you know, I bet you there were got more guys if we change where the radar gun was back then, throwing close to 100 than we actually think there was. Um, guys still threw splits, they threw still through nasty sinkers and cutters. And I mean, Pedro Martinez was out there chucking 95-96 with every ball going like this, right? You can't tell me that pitching's that much better that guys are hitting 250 now. Now, I wasn't an average guy, so I can't talk on it, but I still think if there's more Gabin type players who are going to be big brute force guys that give themselves up for the team when needed, you're gonna have more guys closer to 300 than we have.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Well, you got-I mean, I I've seen pretty much almost every at bat that Gabin's had, right? Because I go to all the home games and I watch it on TV, and you know, just to see him hit the way he hits opposite field with power, and I think we had a brief little text message one time while they were playing one weekend, and just to see him drive the ball that way, that's when he's actually a better hitter. And, you know, seeing the ball like that. But, you know, like you, you were saying, I pulled the ball all the time in college, and then I learned how to go the other way, and I lost a lot of power because I was real, you know, I guess they call it now handsy. Don't be handsy. I was probably handy, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

I had the high average, you know, didn't have much power, but it worked at that time, right? So I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about what you're doing now with the kids. I mean, um you're you're is it remote? Do you have a facility? Where where are these kids if you're able to pass on what you learn to?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, so it started when I was in Orange County. Um, I just always loved hitting um in the mind. So I kind of once I retired, even before when I was still playing, I was like I was training Gavin while I was playing. Um and when I got done, I actually got into real estate, found out that I'm a baseball player and I love baseball and I love the game. Um that real world stuff isn't for me. Um, so I you know, when we moved to Idaho, I I found a facility out here, a really nice building, um, got to be friends with everybody and just started training a couple hids here and there. But really, a lot of my uh stuff is is online. Um, I have a couple different things where I work with remote hitters, but it's it's not just hitting, it's it's a lot of the mental side of the game because I think a lot of these kids need to understand that you don't need a ton of drill work, you don't need um you know all these fancy equipment that everybody's trying to sell you um or this system on how to hit. I'm like, if 95% of those people online had a system that they knew worked, why aren't they in the big leagues? Um because it it's not just about hitting, it's not just about the mechanics of hitting, it's also your approach, your plan, your mindset, your mental performance when you're over 30. What are you doing? Um, and so I I do remote training. Um, my program's a little bit different than most. It's not just hitting. I do a ton of mental performance, and actually, I'm actually transitioning to more to a I call my myself a mental performance specialist um because that's where I truly love the game. I think that's where the game changer is. It's not mechanically, it's it's all mentally. So I run a strictly on on Instagram, is where most of my clients find me. Um it's uh the at sign and then BB Performance Lab. But yeah, I do a lot of that, a lot of mental performance. Um I speak all over the country. Um, baseball conventions at, you know, I just got back from doing one from this this big company in front of like 200 people of just you know, discipline and what it takes to learn elite habits to be an elite performer.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

But I I I think you, I think, you know, just kind of hearing your story and everything, I think you're I mean, you're the perfect candidate for that, right? Because, you know, I I've seen your stuff on Instagram, I've listened to it, and you know, there's a lot of preparation talk and you know the mental stuff and you know the mental side of it. And that's probably one where I fell short when I played because we didn't really focus a lot on the mental piece. It was just like, you know, did they throw you a sinker away, get an opposite field, you know, or whatever it was. And I don't know, it was it just seems different now that the mental part. I see the college kids, they so focused on it. And I think it's great because we didn't have it, but it is a huge part of being a baseball player and being up there and hitting and stuff, you know. It's like you see the kids hold the bats up and take the deep breath and close their eyes, you know, between each pitch. I mean, I'm assuming that's something you work with everybody on. It's like, what are you doing before you go to the plate? What's your mindset? What are you thinking about? Are you focused on the pitcher, you know, and not everything else that's going on? You know, I I'm assuming that's kind of just watching you on Instagram, that's where your stuff is going and where the uh the performance lab and stuff like that works for the kiddos. Am I on the right track?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Absolutely, yeah. So it's it's a lot of like, yeah, we do we do, you know, your routines, your preparation, your tools, and your resources that we need when we walk up there, but it's also it goes a little bit deeper, right? It goes into the psychology of you know, why are you the way you are? Why do you think you aren't that good? Right? Because I was that guy sometimes where I didn't think I was as good as some of the guys I was playing with. Um, and so we we I try to find the why on why they break down mentally sometimes. Because if we can find the why, we can reframe it and change it to help you. Um, so a lot of my clients, I work with I mean, golfers, I work with, I've got an entire uh dance team here locally um on mental performance because it's it's just not just baseball. But for me, obviously I'm never in the baseball world, right? But I think everybody in life, no matter what you're doing, needs to have the right mental performance and mindset to be successful in whatever you're doing. Um, and then just helping them carry confidence the right way. Um, I have a lot of kids that go, Oh, I don't want to act cocky. I'm like, you don't have to be cocky or act cocky. I want you to be cocky inside. I want you to think you're the best player on the field every time you step in between the lines. Doesn't mean you need to go tell everybody that you're the best player in between the lines. Just act like it. You carry yourself. We call it dominant presence. When you stand in that box, does everybody know who you are? Do you have that presence about you where the pitcher looks at you and like, damn, I'm in for a dog fight? And when you see, and that's something that I built in Gavin a a very long time ago when he was starting when he was 13, is I want you every time you step in that box to carry something with you. When that pitcher looks at you, you look him right back in his eyes. Don't you ever shy down from somebody. And and you're you're you make sure that he knows he is in for an absolute dogfight when he faces you. And and so you've done well because he does do that. Oh, yeah. And you know when he's when he walks up to the plate, everybody in the stadium knows who's walking up to the plate, right? The same way when Shohei, Otani walks up to the plate, Mike Trout, Jose Altuve, who's all of 5-5, you know who's walking to the plate because they carry a presence about them. It's dominant, right? So when you can learn that that system of how to be dominant, people you you start to to believe in yourself so much more.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

What what about the uh the the kiddo in maybe travel ball or somewhere that's lacking in that confidence? How do how are you trying to flip the switch with that kiddo? How do they handle failure afterwards and successes? How's all that how do you work that all into your to your to your kiddos?

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Yeah, so for me, it's it's you know, a lot of young kids. I try to really the mental performance side now depending on anxiety and and stress and stuff like that. Like I can work with a lot of younger kids on that. But a lot of younger kids, like I won't get someone until they're about high school, right? Until they understand the game, they understand what they're doing. Um, a lot of young kids, they don't, they they know they don't even know what anxiety is or what truly what stress is when you step in the box, right? A lot of it is I tell parents, I'm like, hey, it's the conversations you're having after a game. Are you asking Johnny why he did this or asking him if he had fun today? Two different questions that can change the course of of the way he thinks. Um, now when I work with a lot of my guys that are older on you know stress or you know, fear of failure, uh, and having that confidence, I said, where do you get your confidence from? And most times it's like, well, I get my confidence from the results. And you know, I think a lot of times these kids get their confidence from you know, hitting home runs or you know, uh getting base hits where confidence should be in your preparation, the work. Are you putting in the work that you know every time you step out there the results are gonna happen? Because you play a game where you can do everything right at the plate and still go 0 for four, right? So it's it's really helping them understand that results don't mean anything. Now we want results, but that you shouldn't have confidence or carry your confidence because of the results. So when you get them into the framework of, okay, we're gonna go have quality at bats, not hits. I don't care about hits, I care about quality at bats. Now, how many quality of bats can you win per game? Now we're not worried about the outcome. We're just up there going in for a dog fight.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Now, how how are you mixing you know that the basic bulldog mentality, the dog fight, you know, the the goon in the player, right? You know, how are you putting that together uh with the mechanics and stuff that they have to think about their approach, right? Or what this guy's throwing and being able to merge the two together instead of being separate.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, absolutely. So with a lot of my hitters, um, a lot of my clients is is what we'll slowly do is I take them through this like three-phase, right? It's nothing crazy, it's just learning to put the body back into a natural state um through movement, right? A lot of kids, you know, want to squash the bug or they want to rotate out of the swing. You know, that's I get a lot of those kids where they're they're too rotational, they're pulling off the ball. So I have this thing called anchored. You need to be anchored into your into the ground. You need to hold your feet so you find your launch position somewhere right outside your shoulders, and you anchor your feet. Those feet are not allowed to move the ground. Now we find a hinge or a posture that's comfortable for you. Um, so your chest is over the plate a little bit, and and we learn to really truly just move with our hips and our core and our upper half. For me, the legs are super important, but they need to be grounded. They need to learn to hold the ground. So if you ever like, if you go and slow down Gavin's swing, you'll see that his legs, that's why he's so wide, is he understands how strong he is and where his power comes from, but he tries to use the ground force to create that. Now, if I can, and we used to do this with Gavin all the time, and just stick your feet in the ground and learn to turn with your your obliques and your core. Um, because that really helps with your turn into the ball. Um, but he's also such gifted hand-to-eye coordination that he's able to wait longer than some. So we'll we'll take him through the phase and then we'll start to build up. You know, what does that forward move look like? Is it a toe tap? Um, are you striding into 50-50? Because when growing up, I thought it was 60-40, right? Hit from the backside. And then I always wondered why I spun off of things and fell backwards. Um, is because I needed to hit from the center of my body. Um, I can use both legs properly. Um, so can you find your your launch position centered for the most part, right? I don't want to be too far out front and I don't want to be leaning too much back. And then from there, it's like, okay, how do we how do we turn into the ball? Right? Is it is it a more of a like we said, is it more the hands becoming disconnected too soon and being handsy? Um and some guys are are too rotational, so I tell them, like, hey, just use your hands, and that gets them back to being in a more clean turn.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Works together naturally.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, and sometimes I have to use different cues that you know some people say don't use, right? Don't swing down through the vault. Well, if I got a kid that's swinging straight up and losing his barrel, the easiest cue for me to teach him to get flat is to swing the opposite direction, which is down. Because he's not gonna swing down, he's not gonna chop a tree down, right? Um, and it's funny because back in the day they used to say, hey, like, act like you have an axe and you're chopping a tree, you're chopping some wood. But then I go like watch a video of a guy trying to chop down a tree. That thing's flat as can be when he's chopping the tree down.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, he's not trying to chop the day. But when you say back in the day, that was actually my day, since you're saying it's all that was my day too, because that's what they taught me. But you know, you you you know, like you spoke about the things online, right? All the guys online that are talking about stuff, and they're they're saying, Oh, you know, they're teaching it to swing down. Well, to me, the swing down part was yeah, swing down like chopping a tree down. I mean, I heard the same stuff, but it was like naturally, it was just basically about right here. It's like the very back, it was like here, then you went down there. And that I think thinking this made you do it to here, and then naturally, yeah. Then it turns and flattens and gets the ball and then you know gets a little uppercut at the contact.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

So yeah, and I get that. The the problem for me was was I took it literally, right? Like if you told me to do something, I was trying to do it perfect. So I was literally trying to chop straight down on a ball, and it created a lot of ground balls where I was a strong guy, and I should be you know more of the Josh Thompson. Like if your coach tells you hit the ball on the ground, say no, right? Right, hit the ball in the end. Yeah, it should be more line drives going up, not high fly balls. I don't ever want to hit a high fly ball unless it's smashed. But I'm gonna take the chances of me hitting a hard line drive that's going up through the infield.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah, well, you know, I have my I I've only hit 17 home runs in eight years, but um, you know, I can at least say my furthest one, I did hit one finally over 400 feet thanks to the Colorado thin air.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Some beautiful air out there, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

It wasn't, trust me, it wasn't far over. It just kind of went like that, I think, over the fence. You know, thanks to the thin air. But yeah, so so let's, you know, I don't want to keep you too much longer, but um let's talk a little bit. You know, we mentioned Gavin here and there. Kind of when when did y'all meet and all that stuff? Because I watched this young man and I'm just like, you know, kind of like we talked about, the way he walks in the box batters box. I mean, just the way he is on deck. I mean, you know, and plus two, the way A and M used him, they used him as a leading hitter. And, you know, so there's there's no rest for the pitcher once he's warmed up in that first inning to start the game, right? Because he could he could give up a bomb to the first hitter. Or, you know, it's no it's no guy that's gonna drag pun on you, right? He's gonna hit it hard somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

So he's button.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Where did y'all meet? What did you work with him on, you know, different things like that? And you know, have you been able to see him play? And have y'all been in contact since? I know maybe he reached out to you to talk. Excuse me, but just kind of the the whole thing with Gavin.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah, so I met Gavin when he was about 13. I was still playing, I think what year was that? I had to be right when I got to Cleveland around that time, so around 2017, 2018-ish. Um, and we were actually, I think the first time I met him, we were gonna go hit with um Aaron Judge's hitting coach, teacher man, Richard Kank, um, who teaches the HLP. And you know, our our agent, we had Aaron, right? So Aaron's a good friend of mine, and you know, Aaron had taken off. So everybody's like, oh, we got to go try this guy out. And so he was in town, and me and uh our agent had had brought because Gavin was family friends with our agent, known him for a long time. Um, they were just just family friends, and so he's like, uh, you know, I'm gonna bring this other young kid along just to kind of you know see if we can get his swing like Aaron. I'm like, okay. Um, so I started doing it, and and I met Gavin and Mike. Mike is Gavin's dad, and we just hit it off. We just started chatting, and I was hit with Gavin. I mean, Gavin thought it was really cool because I was like this 29, 30-year-old guy that was in the big leagues, and he got to hit with me. Um, but he never the cool thing about Gavin is Gavin is beyond his years. Mentally maturity, like he's just a man. And he never like act, yeah, he never acted like he was starstruck. He acted like he belonged in the room. And when I saw that, I was like, this kid's different. And so I got to talk to Mike over the last over the next couple weeks, and Mike's like, hey man, like I'm an ex-pro player, right? I was a minor league guy, and he's like, I'm a college coach, I'm a hitting coach. He goes, but I want to be dad with him. He's like, can can you take care of him? Can you show him the ropes? And I was like, man, like, yeah. I was like, the way I looked at the kid, he's he's just different mentally, physically, he's just big and strong. I said, I'm gonna mentor him.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

His dad.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Yeah, his dad's huge.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

He is huge. I know, I know Mike very well.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

And so I was like, Mike, like, yeah, I'll I'm gonna take him under my wing and I'll give him everything that I know and and more. I'll study to help him. Um just because we got along so well. Um, and I think Gavin's younger than me, but he I he was always like a little brother to me. And so I remember in the offseason, I said, All right, Gavin, you want to get after it the right way? He goes, absolutely, I'll do whatever it takes to get to the big leagues. I want to be a big league player for a long time. I said, All right, starts tomorrow, 6 a.m. in the weight room. So how old was he? He was about 13, 14 years old. Four, I'd say 14. Let's say 14. Um, I think he was uh going into a sophomore year. Um, and he'd been on varsity as a freshman. And so I said, All right, it's time to put on some more real strength, some size, and we're gonna we're gonna mess with your swing a little bit. So I told him this is this is the deal. I will give you everything. I said, but you got to show up at 6 a.m. for the weights, then you're gonna go to school, you're gonna get good grades, you're gonna go to practice, and after practice, you're gonna come hit with me every night. And he's like, All right, done. So I remember the first time he came in, he showed up early, he beat me there. I was like, nobody beats me. Okay, I don't care how old you are, kid. I'm gonna beat you up.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, you're you're you're pissed up day one, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:15

So now I'm like, all right, I show him what a real workout is, and uh we get, I mean, he gets happened, he's dude, he's strong. He's like, we got to a point where he was about 16 years old, 17 years old. He's starting to lift the same amount of weight I am. And I remember taking him through a workout one day, and I was like, I'm gonna kill this kid. Like, I'm gonna see what he has in here mentally, if he can keep pushing. And I was the type of guy that I'd make myself throw up. Like, I didn't care. I wanted to kill myself because I knew that if I got it in, I was gonna be good. We go through this workout, and Gavin's just puking. Just he'll go to the trash can, he'll puke, he'll come back. We call it puke and rally. He is just getting after it. I'm like, this kid will not stop. Like he doesn't care. Like he'd rather die on the floor than quit. And he would every day for four years, he was there in the morning, he was there after school hitting like clockwork. And we just we created this quiet, simple, strong swing um that has just produced what you've guys seen at produce. And and I remember him going into this year and he incorporated a toe tap. Um, and so we talked about it, and and it worked a little bit in the preseason and and stuff like that, but there came to a point where uh Mike Mike actually calls me. Mike texts me and goes, Hey, Gavin needs to hear your voice. And I I I've always me and Gavin go with we don't go a month without talking to each other, um, whether it's over text or or a call, and so he goes, Hey, he needs to hear your voice. And I think he was hitting about 340 at this point or something. I mean, he was he was raking, uh, but the power wasn't there. And so I call him, I'm like, Gav, what's going on, man? Like, why are you frustrated? He goes, I'm missing the ball. So, what do you mean? You're hitting like 340, dude. Like, he's like, Well, I only have like two or three homers. I said, Okay, you you didn't play an entire year of baseball. Give yourself some grace. He goes, No, I don't have time. I said, This is how I built it. Like, he he's just like he needs it now. He wants it, he's worked for it, he deserves it. Um, so he's never gonna be satisfied. And I said, Okay, and over and over, I'm missing it. I'm missing it. I said, You're hitting 340, you're not missing it. He goes, No, I'm I'm just not flushing it and hitting for power. I said, Okay, let's do one thing. Actually, it was two things. I said, first off, let's let's get rid of the toe tap. Uh go back to being Gavin, who Gavin is. Gavin has always hit and will always hit, uh, but you got to go back to being you. So that's when he kind of got rid of the toe tap and just got back to the little drift or step. And then I said, the second thing, stop telling yourself you're missing it. Because if you tell yourself over and over and over again, I'm missing it, guess what your body's gonna do? It's gonna respond to that instead of miss it. I said, from now on, I want you to say, I don't miss. I don't miss over and over and over again. He goes, I freaking love that. And so he said, All right, I'm gonna start it tonight. And I remember him like two days later, you guys had a game, and he goes off, hits a homer. And I text him, I said, I told you don't miss. And he goes, You're he's like, You're right, I've never missed. And so it was just a running joke. Like I told him, I was like, brother, you've you've always hit, you don't miss. And he goes, You're right. I never will miss. I said, that's the mentality you need to have. Because you're gonna miss, you're gonna have stretches where your game's a little off. But I mean, from that point, he hit that stretch, and it was like he was the best college hitter in the country for I mean, what seemed like four months.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

He was on fire to me all year.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Yeah. It was, and it's just not like just the power, right? It's it's how he sets up his at bats, how he, you know, it's truly a dog fight sometimes when you're in that box with him.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, well, and his outs are hard too, you know. Like, there's no cheapies, right? So, I mean, you know, one thing, you know, and I I had a little note here is like, you know, you said something about being hungry. I actually wrote, you know, he's hungry to be great, you know? Yes. And he's he's hungry to be great, not only on the field, but off the field, you know, and I think in the eyes of other people too. And so, you know, I see leadership skills in him. And I just kind of curious, did you kind of see that kind of evolve through him, kind of becoming more of a leader to like teammates or whatever? Because I mean, it's really it's really shown up at AM. It really has.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Yeah, he's uh he's a leader through and through. Um, it's just who he is. It's it's I don't want to say that's what we built. Um, but yeah, yeah, you could talk to Mike. We've had a team around him for years of just say we're gonna put the right people in the right place. Um, but for me, I always I always talk to Gavin about like it's not just what you do on the field, it's what you do in the clubhouse, it's what you do with your teammates outside of the game. Um, it's how you treat people, treat fans, and and that's why he's so I'm like, every it this game's not just about you. Okay. I said, now you get into the big leagues and making a ton of money and and doing what you love to do, like yes, that's about you. But you will be remembered more for the things you do off the field than you did on the field. And that's just coming from me talking to fans over the years of like, hey, what do you guys look in a player? Like, obviously, we want a player that like loves the city, that wants to win, but who treats us like we are a part of the team. And that's what fans want. They want to feel like they're a part of the team.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Um, and so I think that's where Gavin always like did really well. Like, he's gonna hold you accountable. If you're his teammate, he's going to hold you accountable. Number one. He's gonna respect you, he's gonna get the best out of you, but he's also gonna treat everybody around him like they're at his level.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yeah, and and and I and I see all of that, man. And that's where I, you know, it's just he's such an impressive young man. And, you know, it's it's uh it's kind of uh, you know, congratulations, or you know, the people that he had around him with his parents and yourself. And it it's kind of like the team that he had, the support group that he had, to be able to, I mean, it says a lot to be able to just call somebody on the phone or text them, and then they they feel confident just reading your text message, right? I mean, that's that's a huge relationship that you guys have that you can do that. And I I think I think that's awesome. And and uh, you know, being able to talk to you and kind of you know, reaffirming what I already knew about how great of a kid he was, you know, I kind of assumed where he came from, who he had around him, and what type of people. And yeah, it's just he's just he's just an impressive young man. And uh it's been a lot of fun to be able to have him on the podcast. And you know, I know he really appreciates you, uh, you know, because he and his dad talked very highly about you when I first mentioned about hey, I I think I want to talk to Brandon, you know, and so I know you guys obviously have a great relationship.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Yeah, it's I mean, I tell people, yeah, they they have Gavin, you know, I think too low in the draft or oh yeah, or too high, whatever you want to call it, you know, 15 to 32 or whatever that they have. I'm like, if you guys knew who he was, not just as as like we all know he's a great ball player, but if you knew what he could do inside your clubhouse, what he the type of man he is, you know who you're getting when you when you draft Gavin Brahovic. Um you're not gonna get someone, you're gonna get someone that's probably gonna be the best player in the draft that pans out the longest career because of who he is. Um and I don't think a lot of analytics these days, right, because you gotta go through the analytic department, see that, right? Where where if you have the scouts in the stands in the houses like we used to, as much as we used to, you get a better grasp of who Gavin Grahovic is. Um and he would definitely be a top. In my book, he's a top 10 draft pick.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Oh, yeah, it it drives me crazy when I go on Instagram or something and they have first team, second team, third team, and I see, and he's like third team, first base or third base, whichever position they pick. You know, I'm like, seriously? I mean, but I think there's a lot to be said about being able to see somebody every day because when you're ranking players or you're ranking the number one team in the country, or whatever you're doing, yeah, you know, I see him every day. Not every day, but mainly every game, right? So I see the type of player he is, I see the outs he makes, the hits he gets. And so when I look, that's why I don't even care about rankings or anything. Because I'm like, to get a true ranking, you have to know somebody really, you know, through and through to get a true ranking of all these people to be able to put him in line. And you know, top 10, yeah, I I definitely agree with that. I would almost go top five, you know. I just think he's that good, and his work in the clubhouse, like you said too, is just yeah, just and I don't think a lot of people understand that.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Like you can throw Gavin behind the plate and he can catch it a game. Like Gavin grew up and catching that. You can you can you can put him at shortstop and he'll play shortstop. You can throw him in right and left field, he'll go play a good right and left field because when we work, we work to be an athlete. We don't work to play one position. Um and that's what's so and Gavin played first base this year. You throw him because that was a team decision. Gavin took that for the team, was like, I'll go play first base, right? Yeah, could he have been he could have been like, no, I'm gonna play third base, I'm the third baseman. But he's that's not who Gavin is, right? Yeah, Gavin, what's what's best for the team? Okay, me playing first, great. I know I'm gonna bang, so you get make sure I'm in the lineup at that leadoff spot, and let's get after it and win some games.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Yeah, he was, you know, I I know you probably knew that. I mean, he had to go in the middle of a game or something from third, I mean, from first to third, you know, and I mean he looked like an all-conference third baseman from the get-go, and he hadn't been over there. And I know they take ground balls and stuff, but it's different with game speed and stuff like that. So all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go here shortly, but I want to do like a little rapid fire where you can fill in the blanks. I'm gonna put you to the put the screws to you, brother.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Fill in the blank, and then I'll let you go. I know you got three girls, three daughters.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Okay, I have I have one, so and three dogs, but all right. Talent without blank is wasted.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Talent without discipline is wasted.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Nice. Very good. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Confidence comes from the process, not the result.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

The best hitters do blank.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

The best hitters fight. Or the best the best for me, the best hitters play pitch to pitch.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Okay. All right. I like that. The biggest mistake young players make is thinking they're better than they are. You could probably give like five, six, or ten answers on that one, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

All right. Pressure is blank.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Pressure's a privilege.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Ah, nice. Are you are you you know thinking about that? Or you know, you do speaking engagements and stuff, or you ever thought about writing a book?

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, I'm actually in the process of it. Um, it's called Inspire. Uh, it goes through the journey of my career and how I believe you know, discipline plus consistency plus preparation equals success. Um, so yeah, I'm I'm definitely in the works of doing that.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Oh, nice. Well, I I would buy it.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

I will buy it.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

I will buy it. So all right, last one. Failure is blank.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Failure is inevitable.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Nice. Yeah, you should write a book, dude.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Yeah, I I I love failure. I tell uh I love failure. It's I tell my guys all the time, you've got to want failure because failure is data. Failure you will learn something from. If you just go out and have success all the time, you are not going to get any better than you are right now.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Yeah, yeah. No, that's that's well said, man. That's well said. All right, I'm gonna let you go, man. I appreciate it, and just thank you so much. And tell me, tell me again. So it's BB Performance Lab online or yeah, just Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

I mean, you can go to my my normal page, which is at Brandon Barnes underscore one, or my like hitting specific with mental stuff is at Brandon Barnes or at BB Performance Lab.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Okay. Now, I real quick, I did see something about blueprint. Blueprint? Is it called Blueprint?

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Yeah, the blueprint. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Is that the blueprint's kind of like that secret secret thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

No, it's just it's just what my program's called. Um, I call it the blueprint because it's it's I it started with Gavin. We created a blueprint, and over time I've I wouldn't say I've perfected it because I don't think anything will ever be perfect. Um, but it's something that has evolved over time as I've taken this a lot more serious and give it to athletes all over the world. Um yeah, it's just it's just my program and and what you get inside of it.

unknown 54:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

And it's it's gonna evolve more into more mental stuff than than actually hitting.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

So well, keep doing what you're doing, man, because it sounds great. And I think you're really good at it. And I think a lot more people will follow you and check you out, and you know, you might be getting you might be texting a lot more people down the road about you know what to do. Don't swing.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I appreciate it. I I told Gavin I I I want to come be the mental coach down at AM. So I'm gonna do they even have one.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Do they have one?

SPEAKER_00 55:00

I know that they have I so I know that they had one freshman year for Gavin. Um because Schloss has always had one, um, and I know who he is. Um, he's had one ever since TCU. Um so he brings it, he has one same, it's the same guy every year. Um, but talking to Gavin, I was like, man, like I that's what I want to do. I will I love the mind, I love mental performance, I love working with athletes to get the best out of them. Um so for me, like I'm gonna reach out to colleges starting on Monday because I know they're starting to hire people to see kind of what that looks like and how that can facilitate. Because it's not like I have to live in college station um to be the mental coach. I need to you know take some flights down there and connect with the players and build a program that is going to win no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Yeah, and and and have a have a resource of you know you can connect with them when they have questions and stuff like that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

Oh, yeah. That's saying that's like that's that's what I would want. The same thing I did. That's the same thing I did for Gavin. I'm like, Gavin, my phone's open to you 24-7. You call me at midnight ones, I'll answer it. I said it's just what I want to do for players. And I think it'd be cool to have a team, you know, it doesn't have to be AM, but a good division one school that I can really help. Um, and I've I've got other college guys all over the country um that work with me privately. Um I don't post a whole lot about them because some of them don't want their coaches or stuff to know, um, which is really weird to me. Like, why wouldn't you your coach wants you to get better? Um, but yeah, I that's where my heart is. My heart is more on the mental and the mindset, um, but I love hitting as well.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Yeah. Have you ever been to Bluebell Park?

SPEAKER_00 56:49

I have not, but I've heard that Gavin always gives me crap because I I've never made a trip out during college. I'm like, dude, I've got three daughters, they all play travel sports. Like, I try. I say one thing I told him, I said, you make the College World Series, I've come to the World Series to see you play this year. No ifs, ends, or buts about it. I will come out and see you, but did it happen? Um, I will probably I'm gonna try to get down there on draft day um to go hang out with him and be with the family.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Yeah, that's cool. All right, man. I'll let you go. Let's enjoy a Father's Day weekend, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Awesome, brother. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Hey, appreciate it, man. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Thanks, Scott.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

All right, big shout out to Brandon Barnes for taking the time out on a Father's Day weekend, spending some time with the Ball Five podcast. Really enjoy visiting with Brandon and getting some of his insight on Gavin, as well as a deeper understanding of how the mental aspect comes into play, along with physical capabilities in the sport of baseball and in life. So thanks again to Brandon. And you can find him on Instagram at BBPerformance lab, as well as look for his book coming out called Inspire.